Forum:Davesprite and Jadesprite
So I have been meaning to post this for awhile, but due to procrastination never got around to it. But several months back AmbiguouslyAndrogynous suggested moving Alternate Future Dave to Davesprite. I know they posted their arguments somewhere but I can't find them. But the real point was that while I disagreed with their particular arguments I still believed there were alternate arguments for the page being moved. So in absence of the original arguments I will simply put arguments for and against the move. But what does Jadesprite have to do with this? Well all these arguments apply to both of them, so if disagreed on moving Alt Dave's page then conversely that would imply that Jadesprite should be changed to Dream Jade or whatnot, because they are both offshoots in some way of the original versions of themselves that became sprites. *Long term identity - Davesprite was not always that, for the majority of his life he was Dave Strider, the Davesprite identity is only a comparatively short period, plus if he were to die and start doing stuff in the dream bubbles than he would lose the sprite part. Of course the majority of the Dave Strider section of his identity is already covered by alpha Dave, so in essence the article is focused on his time as an offshoot, most of which is as Davesprite, but still not all, and as mentioned, may not always be. If you decided to based the name of where alt Dave starts being in the story it isn't as Davesprite. Jadesprite is the opposite as the entirety of her appearances as a separate independent being were as Jadesprite. However, despite this, Dream Jade may importantly have became friends with Calliope, and given the indeterminate amount of time she was dead, the Jadesprite section of her identity may have been just a blimp, she may have actually spent more time in the dream bubbles then the amount of time she was alive. *Proper name/disambiguation - Alternate Future Dave is not a proper name, technically under the capitalisation rules he should be "alternate future Dave". Meanwhile Davesprite is a proper name. Skipping to Jadesprite, Dream , appears to be a proper name, as given by (the number of uses of Dream is surprisingly low, and the number where "Dream" is capitalised for grammar reasons or the terminology is subject to a typing quirk basically leaves only those three examples). That being said, for all other sprites (except where the character only exists as a sprite, e.g. the trollsprites) their original name is used. That being said, Alt Dave still needs to be disambiguated. As mentioned the current name is probably bad disambiguation, proper disambiguation would have the page titled as something like; "Dave Strider (alternate future)", but given the presence of multiple alternate Daves this still doesn't fully work, but of course the other alternate Daves don't have pages, but this doesn't stop the title being slightly misleading. Off course attempts to correct it could just be more confusing, for example; "Dave Strider (alternate future #1)", the lack of other pages with numbers makes the number confusing. Of course you could just go with something that defines that Dave from other Daves, like; "Dave Strider (Davesprite)" but that becomes so redundant that you might as well just name the page Davesprite and be done with it. So I think that covers the issue, various different points which depending on personal opinion can lead towards or away from renaming the page Davesprite. That being said, one category change I was thinking of to reflect the temporary nature and changing identity of sprites kinda would work best if the page was not named Davesprite, and same with Dream Jade/Jadesprite. - The Light6 (talk) 15:57, September 23, 2013 (UTC) ::There's a certain amount of logic in using the name a character is currently (or was most recently) known by, especially when good alternatives are hard to pin down, as with alt. Dave. I'll admit this suggests that Nanna, Jaspers, and (possibly) Becquerel could also be moved to their sprite names, but since those sprites are virtually indistinguishable as characters from their non-sprite selves, that's less of an concern. (Nannasprite and Jaspersprite are most frequently called "Nanna" and "Jaspers" even now.) The fact that Davesprite and Jadesprite have been primarily known by those names in Homestuck (alt. Dave's doomed timeline notwithstanding) is another point toward using those names for the article titles. Davesprite's history may be as doomed-timeline Dave (and that's fine, it's significant for his character), and if he does get dead and dream-bubbled, we can revisit the name issue, but right now the name he is known by is "Davesprite", and that's the name he's had in the comic since April 2010. ::This subject actually brings up a new related topic: Brain Ghost Dirk. Since he's real now. -- 18:11, September 23, 2013 (UTC) :::I vote Davesprite. Also, I'm really not sure if brain ghost Dirk warrants an article yet. 22:22, September 23, 2013 (UTC) ::::Another similar issue is Erisolsprite. Sollux literally became two Solluxes with his creation, if Erisol dies we don't know if that Sollux will remerged with Sollux or became an independent new Sollux resulting in two alpha Solluxes. - The Light6 (talk) 00:44, September 24, 2013 (UTC) Pseudo restart: We recently added an exception clause to the Manual of Style, this exception clause is easily invoked in this arguement for renaming Alternate Future Dave to Davesprite. Given I was really the largest objection I think that resolves my objection until further developments in the gigaupdate. So I think we give a waiting period incase anyone has changed their mind or has a new objection and then we conclude this topic and proceed with the rename. - The Light6 (talk) 14:28, July 5, 2014 (UTC) :well for constancy sake I wonder what this means about Wayward vagabond, we have that character named by what we were first introduced to him as, this was neither his original name in the timeline, nor what he's currently known as, and it's kind of less of a name than the Mayor, since he choose to be known as the Mayor, this might be for a lack of being able to communicate but wayward vagabond seems more like a description of what the character was, and is not currently is... but that all has nothing to do with all this I guess it just feels like the right place to voice my thoughts on this. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 16:20, July 5, 2014 (UTC)